Add snowballs to bedwars

[LightKnight5742]

@AJtheOtter

The bow deals damage, which makes it infinitely WORSE than snowballs. It means people can hold you away and flat-out shred you to pieces without any actual combat skill. In addition, it makes aimbots even more overpowered, and if someone with an aimbot gets a bow, you are done for.

A way to fix this is, as suggested before, the reimplementation of the close-range arrow nerf. Especially if you fire arrows faster, the likelihood of them dealing any real damage would already go down drastically with the nerf in mind, so even if they do deal damage, it wouldn’t be as heavy compared to if they were fired from a further distance.

@AJtheOtter

I got plenty annoyed by the snowball spammers back in Treasure Wars too, and I do get where you’re coming from here, but I think there is a way to get them back fairly: make them insanely expensive.

This I do agree with.

@AJtheOtter

But making them purchaseable from a merchant, and capping the amount, like we had for Golden Apples or Chorus Fruit, might be a way to make that fair. Make them priced, say, five emeralds for two, and the cap is six, and then it takes THIRTY emeralds as opposed to the ONE it took to get six snowballs back in Treasure Wars.

This I do NOT agree with. This will just make the game more unfair because if someone already gets all the snowballs in the game, no one else will be able to stand as much of a chance. You wouldn’t even be able to get snowballs to counter their snowballs at that point. Also, I like it when prices are kept consistent throughout the game. Its just better for accessibility.

@AJtheOtter

I know you keep saying combos need to happen through “actual skill” but I would argue that drag clicking and butterfly clicking are as much of a “crutch” as snowballs, so to make it more accessible for players who can’t do the aforementioned clicks, the snowballs can be added.

Click speed in raw melee PvP doesn’t really matter as much as you think it does. Its mostly down to having a consistent aim, and good movement patterns. Ping is also a big factor, but most of the time it comes down to whose better with their aim and movement. High click speed will get you nowhere if you have bad aim and movement skills.

@AJtheOtter

Plus, I feel like there is some amount of skill in starting a snowball combo, as it takes good timing and movements.

If snowballs were to ignore the invulnerability frame like they do now if they come back, then knowing the point where your opponent is at a good enough distance from you to fire would matter a lot less, since you could basically get a hit at any time.

Having them not ignore the invulnerability frame would make it so you need to fire when your opponent is at just the right distance for you to be able to get a good hit on them when you stop their forward momentum.

Also, if you mess up your combo, you could very easily just throw another snowball and get 2 easy hits in quick succession. That is ultimately what makes them a crutch item. If they don’t ignore the invulnerability frame, then you could still throw one at your opponent to stop their momentum, but you wouldn’t be able to get those easy hits on them.

@AJtheOtter

We need to keep the ignoring the iFrames because Hive’s weird projectilve physics are what makes them work for combos in the first place.

And its not like they won’t work for combos if they ignore the invulnerability frame. You just need extra timing to make it happen. Hive’s knockback is already vertically inclined, so even if you don’t use a snowball, its still not that hard to get your opponent in the air unless it ends up being a trade fight.

[kingcjt98]

Bro rights an essay every time he replies(I’m joking),however bringing the close range nerf is just bad. This makes bows useless for combos. Ofc, this defeats bow spammers(but I do think sg should remove close range nerf), but make it to the point bows can still be used for combos.

@LightKnight5742

Click speed in raw melee PvP doesn’t really matter as much as you think it does. Its mostly down to having a consistent aim, and good movement patterns. Ping is also a big factor, but most of the time it comes down to whose better with their aim and movement. High click speed will get you nowhere if you have bad aim and movement skills.

I absolutely agree with this. As a mobile player myself, click speed doesn’t matter as much as aim. with a cps between 4-8 for mobile and controller players(8-10 for butterfly/jitter clickers with a mouse).
anyways, bye bye I’m leaving. This post…

[AJtheOtter]

I do get where you’re coming from, let me explain better about the iFrames being needed, I didn’t so well the first time:

[quote=“LightKnight5742, post:88, topic:86646, full:true”]

@AJtheOtter

The bow deals damage, which makes it infinitely WORSE than snowballs. It means people can hold you away and flat-out shred you to pieces without any actual combat skill. In addition, it makes aimbots even more overpowered, and if someone with an aimbot gets a bow, you are done for.

A way to fix this is, as suggested before, the reimplementation of the close-range arrow nerf. Especially if you fire arrows faster, the likelihood of them dealing any real damage would already go down drastically with the nerf in mind, so even if they do deal damage, it wouldn’t be as heavy compared to if they were fired from a further distance.

I kind of get your logic, let me explain about the iFrames better:

And its not like they won’t work for combos if they ignore the invulnerability frame. You just need extra timing to make it happen. Hive’s knockback is already vertically inclined, so even if you don’t use a snowball, its still not that hard to get your opponent in the air unless it ends up being a trade fight.

That is not true. Their knockback is odd, but the entire point of the snowball combo is that it gives you the ability to exchange two clicks fast enough to start “juggling” someone. Click speed does matter for the PvP, actually, not in terms of damage as you’d think, but in terms of knocking someone into the air.

Please do NOT lecture me about PvP. I’ve been on BedWars/Treasure Wars leaderboards 5-6 times. If that wasn’t your intent, great, but you kinda seem to be being a no-it-all (no offence).

I want the arrow nerf added back in, I was hoping it would be there during the Summer Patch, but it wasn’t so we probably have to wait a while

What do you mean,

Blockquote

Also, I like it when prices are kept consistent throughout the game. Its just better for accessibility.

Blockquote

They ARE consistent, the price doesn’t change throughout the game. In addition, it’s not like people can get snowballs from YOUR shop or the shops of others in the game. I get that it’s technically possible, but quite hard.

A solution for the snowballs being a crutch could be a snowball nerf, less powerful than the arrow nerf but still enough to prevent people from spamming them. Another idea is making it so that snowballs near snowballs don’t work, to prevent people from shooting you sky-high with them.

I’ve seen diagrams on Minecraft hitboxes, and they show that a good juggle is ultimately obtained by fast, vertically diagonal, hits at the start of the combo. That’s why the snowballs must ignore the iFrames.

Ultimately, I think their purpose as a combo item is required, but I am not against ways to nerf them slightly, as in TW I think they were way, way, too overpowered.

Have a great day!

Edit; Sorry I messed up the above quotes, idk how to do them.

[LightKnight5742]

@AJtheOtter

A solution for the snowballs being a crutch could be a snowball nerf, less powerful than the arrow nerf but still enough to prevent people from spamming them. Another idea is making it so that snowballs near snowballs don’t work, to prevent people from shooting you sky-high with them.

Yeah, and as I said, another way to go about fixing this is to reduce the knockback snowballs deal during the invulnerability frame period.

@AJtheOtter

Please do NOT lecture me about PvP. I’ve been on BedWars/Treasure Wars leaderboards 5-6 times. If that wasn’t your intent, great, but you kinda seem to be being a no-it-all (no offence).

I’m sorry if I’m coming off as a know-it-all. But yeah, my intent wasn’t to lecture anyone about the PvP system, but rather add in points to support some ideas I have.

@AJtheOtter

They ARE consistent, the price doesn’t change throughout the game. In addition, it’s not like people can get snowballs from YOUR shop or the shops of others in the game. I get that it’s technically possible, but quite hard.

That’s my bad. I misread your original quote about the pricing, so I thought you were trying to suggest having the price change throughout the course of a game.

@AJtheOtter

Ultimately, I think their purpose as a combo item is required, but I am not against ways to nerf them slightly, as in TW I think they were way, way, too overpowered.

I’m not opposed to having them in the game in a more balanced manner. The thing is though, knowing that Hive is mostly against making changes to their PvP system, I sadly doubt that they’re gonna do anything to nerf snowballs themselves. The most they’ll do is make them expensive, which still isn’t a 100% solution to the problem. So, I’m not very confident that they’re gonna be able to get them right in BedWars.

[xTarheels44]

This would be ok however as @LightKnight5742 said the price would have to be raised. One emerald for six sbs was too op. I would reccomend a price of maybe 10 diamonds as they just got a little bit more use with the new upgrades. In the endgame you would have tons of diamonds that are pretty pointless.

[gogisgog]

This is a horrible idea. Snowballs are op.

[Venalaury]

If I may suggest, make it two snowballs for 16 gold. Gold is commonly used for wood to rush in late game so you could sacrifice rushing for snowballs or go for heavy rushing. 16 Gold would insure it isnt overused and keep the item balanced and still feel like a strategy game.

[NervousMarlin84]

Even if they add snowballs( i dont agree with it), i suggest the price should be diamonds, as late game, you end up with stacks of them

[BillyDaMan1]

Maybe a stack for 2?

[FireFox_onMC]

I DONT KNOW WHO SUGGESTED THIS BUT YOU TURNED THE FORUMS INTO A WARZONE……voted😈

[BillyDaMan1]

This has gotten out of hand

[LightKnight5742]

@Venalaury

If I may suggest, make it two snowballs for 16 gold. Gold is commonly used for wood to rush in late game so you could sacrifice rushing for snowballs or go for heavy rushing. 16 Gold would insure it isnt overused and keep the item balanced and still feel like a strategy game.

Here’s the thing: If we make them anything BUT emeralds, then they are farmable at your base. Snowballs shouldn’t be a thing you can just get straight from your base after your first gen upgrade. You should need to go to mid to get them. That’s the only way to keep them somewhat fair and balanced.

Also, we need to make sure people can’t easily get them in large quantities. Because if they are obtainable in large quantities, then the game will devolve into a snowball spam fest.

[DaWhadurMonz]

I haven’t read all the replies cuz there’s so much, but I’ll give my two cents anyways.

Snowballs are annoying, always has been and always will be. Changing them away from the vanilla snowball is a horrible idea, there’s a reason they’ve been trying to get all projectiles to work the same as vanilla ones.

@LightKnight5742

Also, we need to make sure people can’t easily get them in large quantities. Because if they are obtainable in large quantities, then the game will devolve into a snowball spam fest.

This right here is the exact problem. No matter how much you nerf them or make them hard to get, people will still find a way to get a lot. It’d make the pvp so much less fun than it is at the moment.

Even if they did find a way to make sure people have very little of them, they’re annoying. At least with a bow you can tell when they’re about to shoot you. So many people in tw would run around all game, and just wait for you to follow them and hit you with a single snowball to push you off the map. With a bow, they can see that and run back to safety. Bows are far less annoying. I do agree with nerfing bows up close again, but I’m pretty sure it’d break turrets.

Also, being on a leaderboard doesn’t mean you know how to pvp.

[LightKnight5742]

@DaWhadurMonz

Bows are far less annoying. I do agree with nerfing bows up close again, but I’m pretty sure it’d break turrets.

A solution to that would be to make the nerf only be applied when an arrow hits a player. Turrets should not be affected by the nerf.

[BillyDaMan1]

Or maybe they could add a one to two second cooldown to snowballs so that they couldn’t be spammed.

[IBearBladeI]

Some people take block game too seriously

[AJtheOtter]

No We DoNt1!!

[IBearBladeI]

@AJtheOtter dont scroll up then

[AJtheOtter]

I was joking, I’ve been involved in this and probably gotten too invested as well, hence the typos and skull emoji.

[IBearBladeI]

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