Unbalanced team Balancing

Often in CTF, a match is set from the start due to player count or who is on your team. If 4/6 people from your team leave instantly like what happened to me once, it leaves you in a completely lose-lose scenario. Not only are you outnumbered, you have less people for jobs, less chances for good players, and the worst of all is that you are being outproduced in coins. If it’s a 2 vs 6 scenario, then every second your team is only gaining 2 total coins to go towards stuff like TNT, arrows, or Armour, while the other team is being given 6 total coins per second. This needs to be rebalanced so that even though the game is probably already lost, the game will still try to help the outnumbered / underpowered team by giving them coin boosts. I have a lot of suggestions that all tie together to fix this this issue:

  1. Increase coin generation speed for outnumbered teams, aka a Coin generation multiplier.
    The ratio of people on each team shall determine the rate at which coins are generated. Basically, if it’s a 6v6 but a person from your team leaves, then the coin generation is increased from x1 to x1.2 since 6/5 = 1.2, meaning the outnumbered team will get this coin generation speed multiplier. If it’s a 6v4, again, it’s calculated like this: 6/4 = 1.5, so outnumbered team coin generation multiplier is x1.5. A few more examples are:
    5v4 = x1.25 (5/4=1.25)
    6v3 = x2 (6/3=2)
    4v3 = x1.333 (4/3=1.333)
    If it ever becomes even again, say a 4v4 the coin generation is reverted to x1.

  2. Apply the formula above to other actions when a team is outnumbered, aka an Action Multiplier.
    Basically, if you get a kill and your team is down 4v6, then kills will be x1.5 as rewarding, rounded up. This means, if you’re down 4v6 and you get a kill, you earn 23 coins because 15x1.5=22.5, rounded up to 23. If it’s already rounded no need to worry, like a team capture would be already rounded to 75 coins.
    One more example, if you get a capture and your team is down by 1 player 5v6, then the formula would up it to 150x1.2=180 coins for a capture, while your team would receive 60 because 50x1.2=60.

  3. Buff the team leaver split.
    I currently don’t know what the formula is now, but if it doesn’t include items that have been bought by the player who left then calculate it like this:
    Total coins earned x1.5 divided by remaining players.
    So if a player leaves having earned a total of 500 coins regardless of what was spent, while 5 people remain, then each person receives 150 coins to make up for the lost player. Calculated like this: (total player coins, say 500)x1.5 divided by (players remaining, say 5) = 150. This, along with the coin generation and action multipliers, should make up for the lost player, as a player is hard to be compensated for. They are an extra sword, extra cannon fodder, extra arrow rain, extra explosive tactician, they are so much, but I hope these multipliers and buffs above will make up for them.

  4. Kill rewards.
    Currently in CTF, you are given 15 coins for killing a player / getting the final hit, 3 for an assist, and 5 - 7 automatically regenerated hearts (I dont know exactly how many). 2 of these have problems, the assist bonus and heart bonus.
    The first major problem is the assist bonus. Someone from your team can steal 12 coins from you just by getting the last hit on someone. I don’t want such complicated code for the kill to be the player who did the most damage, as that’s too much to ask for. A fix however, is buffing the assist coin bonus to 8 coins so in case of a “stolen kill,” you are still fairly rewarded for it.
    2nd issue with the kills is the heart bonus. This sometimes makes players unkillable, even in a 3v1, because if the outnumbered player simply targets one player (which is surprisingly easy from experience of abusing this myself), then they get almost fully regenerated and ready to target the next person. This takes any hope of using sheer man power to kill that player away, because of an overpowered heart bonus.
    This needs to be reduced from whatever it is now to 2.5-4 hearts bonus depending on what Hive wants, personally I think 3 hearts would do best. Rewards you, but doesn’t practically give invincibility and increases incentive to work in groups.

  5. Spawnkilling.
    If a team is so overpowered that they won’t even let the other team do stuff by killing them, then something is wrong. A solution must be implemented to prevent spawnkilling.
    Firstly, absorption hearts. This is already an upgrade, but why not make it free? I suggest giving players 5 absorption hearts for free, that last for 12 seconds. This would help prevent spawnkilling.
    Secondly, increase the spawn protection period to 8s. Not much to explain, 8s of invincibility unless you attack another player. That’s also a free hit on spawnkillers if you choose to ruin those 8 seconds of invincibility.
    Thirdly, add an area around your teams spawn area that if the other team steps in it, they take the same damage as stepping in water.
    All of these 3 suggestions will help prevent spawnkillers massively.

  6. Upgrades
    A few other minor things need to be changed about upgrades.
    Firstly, they all need to be made about 20-50% cheaper to encourage people to buy them. They aren’t very useful but they are mighty expensive, so a price reduction is in order.
    Secondly, adding 2 levels to some upgrades be good, for example adding 2 levels of faster respawn. Lvl 0 as a base will be whatever it is now. Lvl 1 will be 5s, and lvl 2 will be 3s. Absorption hearts will be changed to 10 hearts but reduce the invincibility period to 6s
    I suggest these new prices:
    Arrow Upgrade - 100
    Block Upgrade: 150
    Faster Respawn Level 1: 75
    Faster Respawn Level 2: 125
    Absorption Hearts: 150
    Flag Curse: 75
    (Did I miss one? Assume I’d reduce the price by 20%-30% ish too)

  7. 2 other things
    A few other minor things I would like changed for balancing purposes:
    -Flag curse health increased to 5. 3 is just too much of an upgrade, you are basically a 2/3 shot. It’s also very hard to not let anyone get to you by other team members defending the flag holder. To compensate for the nerf, the price above has been reduced.
    -No captures bonus increased to 400 per person, unbalanced team multipliers stated in part 2 effect this. This is to help the losing team more easily come back.

That should be all! These changes are designed to balance general stuff as well as make a proper solution to one team having less players. The changes also give incentive for upgrades, instead of overstocking personal items.

I’m open for chat about this and for The Hive team to adjust the numbers if they think it needs changing, whether it be too OP or not enough.
Cya in the thread :slight_smile:

Try playing in a party to ensure a full team

U can report players for spawnkilling if they keep doing it

Don’t wanna add randoms, plus I got no irl friends who wanna play CTF with me. This should be implemented for non party teams

They cant really change this because… its how parties work?

Parties are hard to compete with as a soloer but its just kind of the reality of not partying.

CTF is a party game. Its hard to win without one and Hive can’t really fix it

1 Like

People can’t just try be co-operative and help each other? Not leave? Attempt the match? Instead of being greedy little pigs.

I know that won’t happen, so how do I get into party matches with people?

Also having read the ideas do you still think they are good? Can you vote?

One way is to receive party invites

I know how parties work but I’m saying where can I find a team online or through Discord? I’d rather not voice call either

Through the looking for party chat on hive discord

1 Like

Thanks, I will see if I can use that in the future :slight_smile:

5 Likes

Or ask around the hub

I love the thought that was put into this post! For the spawnkilling part, you can report them on discord (i do not use disc). I would like most of these changes but there could be people that disagree.

P.S. Welcome to the fourms :beedance:

Yo, I love math, so formulas are cool to see :slight_smile:
So ima talk about each and my opinion as lvl 50 but also know how it really feels to struggle likes this

  1. Good idea tbh
    Btw ima make chart for the different Amounts:
    6v6: 1x
    6v5: 1.2x
    6v4: 1.5x
    6v3: 2x
    6v2: 3x
    6v1: 6x
    5v5: 1
    5v4: 1.25x
    5v3 1.66….x/ 1.7x
    5v2: 2.5x
    5v1: 5x
    4v4: 1x
    4v3: 1.333….x/1.3x
    4v2: 2x
    4v1: 4x
    3v3: 1x
    3v2: 1.5x
    3v1: 3x
    2v2: 1x
    2v1: 2x
    1v1: 1x
    (Not really a chart)
    Btw welcome to the forums!
  2. I don’t like it nearly as much as the previous one but still a good idea
  3. At this point, they have a treasure trove of coins. I mean I think the split lever is good demoing, maybe a slight buff
  4. I like the regenerating hearts, it’s what helps you win the very few wins when you’re getting double, triple, even quadruple teamed! So I don’t think it needs a debut, I think the kill assist needs to go higher tho
  5. Maybe a spawn killing debuff when every spawn kill you add an extra second(or half a second) to the respawn time thing(I forget what it’s called). No absorption is pretty good, but not good enough, but I don’t think it should be free. I think maybe make it so it’ 3 absorption hearts with maybe 25 less coins (I like never buy it)
  6. Upgrades don’t need to be that cheaper. But I like the levels to upgrades, like absorption
  7. I agree with everything.
    So overall a good idea, fixing the many(sometimes too many) problems with ctf. Props to the hive for the game, a great game
    Mic drop :v:

Firstly, thank you for welcoming me. These ideas I had were the whole reason I was inclined to come here.
Secondly, spawnkilling is just kinda something that we’ve all done, myself included, and it’s just a thing that shows unbalanced teams. It’s not right to report something that isn’t really cheating, but instead just a little unfair or annoying.
Thirdly, I’m very glad you liked most of the changes, I hope Hive will see this and consider. Every comment helps, thank you

1 Like
  1. That’s good maybe add +0.05x/0.1x to help because having equal coin production is not good enough if your like in a 6v4 or something you will just get destroyed especially in a 6v1 (this has happed to me before)
  2. That’s pretty good
  3. Also fine
  4. Yeah I think the amount of hearts you get from a kill is perfect as a CTF sweat myself this has helped me take countless 4v1s before or any fight that I’m outnumbered in.
  5. I think instead of 5 absorption hearts maybe 2 instead but when you have absorption active it’s 5. I am not very fond of a zone in which you take the same damage as in water.
  6. Ok
  7. Ok
    And lastly welcome to the forum’s. BTW this is a the biggest first post I have ever seen like this is humongous.

Firstly, thanks for welcoming me, very appreciated. Thanks for the chart/list, very helpful for if Hive wants to implement the multiplier. The whole comment is very criticising and “oposing” heavy, but I am open to all comments about this. I understand people’s disagreements and different opinions over stuff and not getting mad over opinions is something we should improve on.
Like how you responded to every one in order with numbers, gives me a clear indication of what you do and don’t like. Helps Hive make decisions based on the community as a majority.

About 3, yes, at this point they may be given a few too many coins but numbers are all about being adjustable so anything can be changed really.

About 4, people’s view on the regenerating heart depends. You like it the more sweaty you are. Like all the comments have said the same thing and come from sweats, I am pretty good myself and like them when it’s in favour of me, but if you are able to 4v1 it means you are being rewarded a bit too much. If they are at like 6 or 7, at least reduce them down to 4-5

  1. My only issue is how the game will track and define “spawn kills.” Good idea though. And about the too much absorption, they aren’t permanent hearts they are just there to help prevent spawnkilling. They go away after 12s

  2. The upgrades may be a bit OP now but obviously since they are numbers they can be adjusted. I just thought since basically no one bought them the price could be reduced at least a little bit.

  3. Thank you for agreeing

Thanks for the comment in general, gives me multiple views on the issue or whether it’s an issue at all. Cya ‘round

2 Likes
  1. Adds an extra 5%-10% generation rate or something, yeah, good idea.

2 and 3. Thanks, very glad you agree

  1. I know all the sweats will apples this but surely a slight nerf? If your able to 4v1 it means that the game is a bit too rewarding. Would you agree to drop it to at least 5?

  2. The zone is only for the opposing team, we can stand in it all we like. Helps combat spawkilling

6 and 7. Thanks

Lastly, thank you so much and to everyone else that has said this, everyone has been so welcoming and I love to see it continue. Yes, it is a massive post compared to some others i’ve upvoted but that’s because it’s 1 massive issue of team numbers and making a fair game. They all tie in to solve a few major problems. Hopefully Hive will see this and your lovely comment who is on board with a lot of these. Every comment helps, thank you.

1 Like

Ok so ye I agree that it could be less, but it shouldn’t be too low, as it has been a key part of the game.
And yes, like nobody buys upgrades

It would be funny if the team with less players slowly gets speed and strength then they become a Chad

If you’re wondering how to get a party here’s how I got involved in the sweat comm and now rarely go without parties.

1: Play some solo

2: invite someone sweaty who is ALSO solo

3: Add them as a friend. (if this doesn’t work repeat steps)

4: Play with them and THEIR friends.

5: Add their friends, and their friend’s friends, etc.

6: You should have a list of people who sweat at a specific game.