This was asked in #help-me on the Hive Discord Server and I was told to post it here, a one way death sentence that can only be reached by taking an elaborate path is not an “intended feature”.
It’s not often I post these, but over the course of the past few months it’s come to my attention how exactly unfair a particular spot is in the map Eso Hotel.
You can reach this spot by dropping off the top balcony, onto the leaves climbing up the corner of the wall, making a corner neo-jump onto the leaves held by fences, then jumping onto the chandelier.
The height of the chandelier is just out of reach of the murderers sharpened sword. And there is too many small blocks and obstacles for the players to hide behind so the throwable is garauntee’d to fail.
It would be most appreciated if barriers were put up, as the vocal players only talk about it being easy when it’s rather the rare instances they happen to meet someone, likely not even a sheriff, on the chandelier when they are the murderer. It’s very difficult and very frustrating for anyone playing.
with the changes made to throwables, it is now much easier to hit people on the chandelier with the throwable. When the throwables interacted with the fence like it was a full block then ya this was toxic but now that they fixed that this strat isn’t even all that good anymore.
I’m more concerned about the trees, the trees on eso are broken for innos and sheriffs beyond belief and need mega nerfs immediately.
The trees have multiple ways to access, and with the rough terrain and openness of the tress it’s not as difficult as it seems. But as mentioned with the chandelier it is completely out of reach of the sharpened sword and again, there is multiple obstacles and the ability to hide behind the fence.
Even if the fence is not considered as the size of a block anymore, that doesn’t stop people, including sheriffs, from hiding adjacently to the murderer behind the fence, which knowing the throwable it would need to be a miracle for any average player to manage to clip past the fence and hit the player behind. Not to mention it is suicide to just assume that nobody is going to shoot at you trying to aim at a player on the chandelier.
Returning to the trees argument, the reason the rough terrain is a detriment to both the murderer and the sheriff is due to the nature of the trees itself, if the murderer uses the trees to their advantage then they are capable of reaching in the trees with their sword, or driving the shooter out of the trees with a throwable.
The point being made is that the trees maybe detrimental to the Murderer, but it can be just as detrimental for the Innocent/Sheriff too. The Chandelier area got little to no drawbacks for the inno/sheriff while plenty for the Murderer, as already aforementioned (Out of reach for the Sword, obstacles placed for the innocent/sheriff to avoid the throwable with ease).
I have no idea how u came to this conclusion. The sheriff can camp the trees, dodging the throwables (its very easy lol), and shoot at the murderer if they try to come up. then if they miss they jump down and run and stay about 30 blocks away from the murderer, go back up to the trees, and try again. If you don’t have a problem with tree campers its because ur tree campers are bad. Or maybe you’re just goated, thats a possibility too.
I came to the conclusion again, due to the terrain of the tree. It’s not as simple as just “simply dodge it lol”, as the leaves are thin, meaning dodging often or not causes the player to overshoot, or psychologically they will respond to just upright jumping out of the tree. And before you respond to “bro they just have to get inside of the indents of the tree”, that’s where you have them, as when they are inside the indents, then they have less of a shooting range when you climb onto the trees from different angles.
In comparison to the chandelier, which is a one way route with the chandelier’s trapdoor platforms making a good way to cover decently and then also the pole to hide behind, which if attempted to be approached then by the time you reach the area to access the chandelier the Sheriff would be repositioned and ready to shoot you when you enter the funnel.
I believe you are getting confused here. When you talk about them failing on the tree, this is obviously because they aren’t good enough. Trees are easy (but time consuming for some people) to get onto while the chandelier has a very high skill threshold. Personally, the 2 times I tree camped i won and I stopped doing it because it felt unfair to the murderer, I just dodged all their throwables and kept taking shots at them and eventually one would hit. Meanwhile, on the chandelier the distance between you and them is much smaller so its way harder to react to a throwable, the mixup is just which side of the fence u aim at.
Again, just because you’re finding bad tree campers doesn’t mean that the strat in itself is bad. Its just that usually the better players are looking for the murderer instead of chilling in the tree so they cant get hit. They want the kill, not the “not death”, so tree camping isn’t good for them.
However, if you find someone who’s good and also committed to tree camping and you’re the murderer and you didn’t clear the trees immediately upon getting the role, ur kinda screwed as they can dodge without falling and then u have to put urself in that bad situation to go get them.
I’m not saying the chandelier isn’t good, it so is. Its just that the trees are so much better for innos/sheriff.
The counterplay to the chandlier is much more straightforward - get the invis, throwable them from behind. For the trees its not that simple. Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
One can say the same about Chandelier Campers can they not?
Again, there is more angles to killing someone on the tree. The fact that you can pull yourself out of range and deter them with the throwable while studying how they move (dodge, where they will hide, etc.) makes it much easier to deter their position and start closing in. Meanwhile on the chandelier the solution is always get behind fencepost. I see people die on the trees 10x more often at least than people on the chandelier
I can understand what you mean here as the invisibility can barely get you around in such an open map, but to remind you that the vending machine is RNG and also the distance between both is fairly far away. It’s not like you can just throw straight beneath but you could throw from afar but that gives the individual in the chandelier more time to react.
the best solution here may just be to agree to disagree. As we are both making equal counter-arguments and this debate is getting nowhere for either of us. The Chandelier is considerably unfair and the trees counteractively is also considerably unfair as well. Both have their drawbacks and both arguably need some way to be made more fair. Admittedly there may never be anymore change made to either but both of us can at least go home knowing that both spots are very unfair and to bring this debate to a close.
Appreciate the time discussing, up to Hive to decide now.
I can also agree to disagree, just one question - did u read my whole thing before u started quoting for disagreements or did u just do it all in one go? I only ask this because it feels as though you quoted concerns that I address later or before the quoted segment.
For example,
as I said before, its very easy to react to throwables when on the tree. You aren’t conditioning dodges if their entire plan is just “react to what you do”. If it was unreactable then yes, I’d agree with you here.
Another example is this one,
you can hit them if they’re directly behind the post with the throwable because of how big the hurtbox is in comparison to the hitbox. That means that they have to pick a side, and you can hit them for picking wrong.
I do, however, agree with your main point that the chandelier is kinda dumb. My only request was that they nerf the trees as well if they tweak the chandelier, since I struggle a lot more with competent tree campers than I do with good chandelier campers.
I certainly did, I read everything and then took considerable time processing the information to come up with an appropriate response to each. I apologize for if I come off redundent on anything, some points I tend to repeat.
My motto as a Murderer has always been to have the mindset that you the murderer have control over the players and what they do, not them, so it’s possible that the trees would never be an issue for me.
this is fair as like me with the trees, you don’t have issues with the chandelier.
I would be fine with this, as nerfing both would be the fair approach here, as people clearly have difficulty with players in the trees and in the chandelier alike.
Thanks lol, big Kiri fan. Yours makes me want to watch the first Season of Pokemon again, I loved that show when I was a kid
